Kniteforce Revolution

Please Answer My Question and Baraka Pre Sale updates!

Hello everyone,

I hope this blog finds you well this fine summers day? I am too hot, as is my standard position for the entire summer months, but other than that, I am great :)

So lets dive right in. I am going to assume most of you read the previous blog about the mess of the press? If not, you can find it by, you know, looking on this very page haha. Anyway, fairly shortly after I wrote that, we got hit with our first major delay, and it is unfortunately on these two titles:

KBOGR46T - Baraka - Nutty Bass / I'll Be There

KBN09 - Phat & Phuturistic - Part 1 / Part 2

These two titles are of course part of the Old Skool Jungle Bundle. We have already received one of the others - KLEG06 - Q Project - Champion Sound, and we are told KBN07 has been pressed and is on its way to us. So we have already sent out ALL the orders that we could, the ones which ordered KLEG06 but not others. And we will do the same with any orders for just KBN07. But the vast majority of the orders are for all four of these wicked EPs, so the vast majority of orders are still with us, stuck and waiting. All four of these releases were ordered on the same day - they were cut the same day, test presses recieved within days of each other, and we of course expected all four to be delivered closely together.

But we have been told both Barak and Phat & Phuturistic are now coming in August.

Of course, I apologise for this extended delay, but it is genuinely out of my hands, and there is nothing I can do :( I will get them sent to you as soon as possible of course, and in the coming weeks I will upload the digital files so that you do at least have those.

This brings me to a different problem though, and I would really love it if you could reply and advise me on this, either via email or in the comments section.

The vast majority of releases I can guess / judge the amounts I need, but I have always had to do presales on some releases. Despite the delays on the Baraka ep, we should all be glad I did a presale because I was only going to order 700, and we have done a LOT more than that. If I had not done a pre sale, the vast majority of people who want it would not be able to get it.

But we have some big releases coming where I am going to struggle to guess the amounts I need. I am talking about the Ray Keith Box Set, or The House Crew Box Set, or the Nookie Box Set. But not just Box Sets, there are EPs like Jonny Ls Hurt You So and its remixes, or the new remixes of Nutty Bass. These are tricky to guess numbers on.

Perviously, I could order 500, and then if we needed more, I could reorder. Indeed, this is what I did with the forthcoming NRG Box Set (Due July 16th). And I think that is about to backfire on me, because with the HUGE delays on vinyl, repressing is now a problem. When I placed the order for the NRG Box Set a few months back, I thought I could order the 500, and then if the demand was great, I could do a presale then for any who missed it, and then reorder whatever we needed.

Thats not how it is now. If and when we sell out of these first 500 of the NRG Box Set, it will be 4 months before I can get any more stock AT THE EARLIEST. Add a presale to gather the right numbers? and its going to be closer to half a year. Thats...not gonna work. So i think with the NRG box set, once its gone, it may well stay gone. This is not me trying to drum up business, this is me laying it out.

So with furute releases, I need to choose one of 2 options. And I want you to tell me which is preferable:

1. Chris guesses the order

This would basically mena on most things I will order a set amount, and then once it is gone, it is gone, and any reorder might take a LONG time, if it comes at all. The pros for this are: We only sell the records we have in stock. No one has to wait for their orders. And its MUCH easier for me and you to know what is going on. The cons are, many people will miss out, or I might possibly end up with too much stock. And reordering is gonna be very very slow, if I do it at all. This will be particularly annoying on big items like The House Crew box set.

2. Still do presales

This would mean we do what we have done previously with the Acen Box Set and the Baraka EP etc etc. The pros here are that it means anyone who orders something will get it, and I can order the right amount. But the cons are quite severe in that it means people paying for the release a LONG time before it arrives. It could mean a 4-5 month wait from when you order the record to when it arrives. It also makes the running fo the store pretty horrendous. But I will deal with that, perhaps find a way to make presale items have their own section or something.

So thats basically the question. How to procede with pre sales etc in the current "vinyl is taking a bloodly long time to arrive" climate. Answers below or via email. I will not reply to most of you, but I will read every one.

Thank you,

Chris

Posted 14th June 2021 By Luna-C 69

Alkivar

100% Presales I dont mind waiting longer as long as it eventually shows up. As a completionist I hate missing out on releases that i might miss because i wasnt awake during the right window of time on the wrong side of the ocean from me.

Commented 14th June 2021 01:25

Brooksie831

Pre sales on represses should Be no issue what so ever or box sets with mainly represses as you know what your getting before you pay - Anything new could Go on chris’s guess list ? That ways your safe and the customer knows what they are getting involved with :-) I’m guessing you are separating the represses and Box sets from the new stuff coming out ? The whole crowd funding thing hasn’t go down to well with some ??‍♂️

Commented 14th June 2021 01:33 | Updated 14th June 2021 01:35

dolphinhardcore

2. Still do presales Waiting is fine for me. It's more important not to miss releases. But I think there are many people who don't like to wait.

Commented 14th June 2021 01:35

MsPrim

Definitely do presales - the vast majority of us vinyl buyers are used to waiting, so to wait a bit longer won’t bother me. Good things come to those who wait. Plus everyone who wants a boxset or a vinyl release won’t be disappointed. Unfortunately you will get people who will moan about the wait but then they will also moan if you guess and not enough are ordered. So you’re damned either way.

Commented 14th June 2021 01:53

The_D

It seems that realistically the options are a) wait or b) wait longer so I am absolutely fine with presales but equally happy to grab what I can when I can. Obviously nobody wants to miss out on a much anticipated bot sex so it's a case of weighing which way will get you less complaints. Whichever way you do things there are potentially (possibly ridiculous) delays. I'm sure most of us just want to buy records from you and as long as they keep coming at semi regular intervals I'm more than happy!

Commented 14th June 2021 01:57

MK2k

Keep doing pre sales BUT provide digital downloads faster (i.e. right after the pre sale is done) - why hold them back? The number of sold items is already done and paid for.

Commented 14th June 2021 02:12

Hyper-Trax

Given the current 'pressing' situation (soz, lol) I would prefer pre-sales. The records won't arrive any sooner whichever way you decide to go, and at least with pre-sales you won't be weighed down with over stock or risk disappointing someone who missed the boat. ?

Commented 14th June 2021 02:39

Enzi

Pre sales is no issue for me. I am always happy to wait for the records. If life was easier for you with the other option that would be fine also. But I defo favour pre sales

Commented 14th June 2021 02:41

Marklamar

Pre sales all the way, i think people are happy to wait on this stuff.. most been waiting 30 years since the originals.. you do a good job with the comms.. thumbs up from me

Commented 14th June 2021 02:51

Bassline

Happy to wait to ensure I get something as good as a box set even if its 6 months wait time! I don't want to miss out on anything if at all possible

Commented 14th June 2021 03:24

MRBUZZ

Hi Chris, pre sales for me, as someone who constantly buys Vinyl I am happy to wait, I must admit though I am privileged to get the TP's as soon as there available, the boxsets though you might have to order a few more than usual especially with names like The housecrew, Ray Keith, NRG, Force+Evolution awesome, many thanks for getting these great producers to make new old skool or whatever its called these days ??

Commented 14th June 2021 05:02

Blakey

100% Pre-sales all the way it gives everyone a chance to order. I don’t really mind waiting as long as it arrives in the end. I’m happy enough.

Commented 14th June 2021 05:38

wayne

Presales definitely, I am more than happy to wait rather than missing out on releases as i am not always able to get online and order straight away all of the time.

Commented 14th June 2021 05:40 | Updated 14th June 2021 05:41

Percy

Pre sales : ) although if it helps with the business side of things maybe the price of postage on boxsets is covered in the final price so any other orders combined can get shipped earlier if need be. The real issue with a set number ordered is you will see things ending up online for double or triple with no benefit to yourself or the artists involved. You do you sir & we will still luv ya for it :)

Commented 14th June 2021 05:58

wesdye

presales for sure, that way you don't have the headache of having product leftover. it's only really a problem if someone moves house but they can always update their address

Commented 14th June 2021 09:15

skyrim

You must do pre sales on the box sets. I waited months for the acen one and did not mind in the slightest. I would wait a year for the house crew one.

Commented 14th June 2021 10:15

Mixadave

Carry on with pre sales. My memory is pretty bad, so when they arrive...its like a little surprise gift to myself I forgot I ordered. Everyone likes surprises!

Commented 14th June 2021 11:25 | Updated 14th June 2021 11:26

rootz1971

Please continue with the pre-sales ..very happy to wait .. have done so for the past few years with many other labels ..so not a problem at all .. my bank manager would love it if all pre sales were banned ..hehe .. But on a serious note very happy to wait for great records however long they take .. please keep up the great work.

Commented 14th June 2021 11:59

F_Dippert

I think i can be fine with both options, because i mostly throw out my order as soon your mail arrives. But i can't speak for others. The presale option sounds the better way, because you know how much to order and the customers get the digitals directly. The other side i understand is the mess to sort out the half ready orders until they are complete and shipped. So option 2, pre-sale! Respect mate ✊

Commented 15th June 2021 03:00

hypnotic

Do what will be the best for You Chris. We all love what you do for our vinylpornlove so do what You need to do for your psychical health :) We love Your work m8.

Commented 15th June 2021 07:33 | Updated 15th June 2021 07:41

PZ1013

Pre-sales, definitely. We've all been waiting long enough to get our hands on some of these tunes whether that be in the record shops, Discogs, Ebay, outright theft...when someone goes to the trouble of actually making it easier to get these tracks, what's a few more months to wait?

Commented 15th June 2021 10:21

darkedge_tgs

Pre sale I think so everyone else can get them but not a fan of pre sales but a necessary for yourself to get stock. Only thing I’m not working so it get hard for me keep up buying every Release as not working

Commented 15th June 2021 10:43

kuma69

If I want it I will order on presale and happy to wait until it happens, I have no problem with 3-6 months, possibly longer. Those Blueskinbadger are nice but I missed colour so I will wait to buy a flipped copy off Discogs. If there is a limited version I won't preorder the unlimited version but will hold out to get the limited version on the secondhand market.

Commented 15th June 2021 11:11 | Updated 15th June 2021 11:15

super_fonkey

Pre-sales are better so we aren't feeding scalpers on Discogs. What I would change is being completely realistic on the store listing about expected delivery times, making the most conservative estimate even. With Acen, the stress was that we thought we might get it before Xmas (although you weren't to know of course). If you know it's not coming for 5 months then you don't think about it... and if it comes earlier then it's a nice surprise!

Commented 15th June 2021 11:17

Fumo

Hi Chris, I've only skimmed the comments but I'm not surprised to see that "pre-sales" seems to be overwhelmingly preferred. It's good that your customer base has enough patience and good will that most people don't mind waiting, and don't want their peers to miss out on releases any more than they'd like to miss a release! Although it might be more of a hassle to coordinate the pre-sales, I think it's probably the right move for this situation. Not only could the guessing game be a bit painful for you if you happen to be in the habit of overestimating (or prone to noisy or biased judgements, which we all are), but chronic underestimating could really cause some disappointment for fans that will sting much more than a protracted wait. Furthermore, given that external factors around record pressing could pose further challenges, it seems better to do as you're doing, and to check in with your customer base, and see that we're along for the ride. Perhaps you could consider the above suggestion about releasing the digital files, after the close of the pre-sale, but ahead of the shipment of vinyl. This will help ensure problems with the distribution of vinyl don't lead to other issues where the music is heard less than it deserves to be heard. I also think it might pay to try to further rationalise what releases get pressed to vinyl. While I appreciate that many people love to buy records, it's a means to an end for me, and I'd gladly purchase digital files or CDs to get the tracks I need! While I recognise that vinyl continues to be the preferred format of your customer base, I think you need to reconcile this with the pressing plant issues you've been describing in the last couple of blog posts. If things are getting jammed up then it makes some sense to reduce the number of vinyl titles that you schedule in future.... The issue with the pressing plants sounds as though it's going to take some time to resolve, and both option A and B could prove challenging to sustain in the long term. Hopefully this helps you, and I appreciate that you've sought our feedback. Cheers, Adam S

Hi Chris,

I've only skimmed the comments but I'm not surprised to see that "pre-sales" seems to be overwhelmingly preferred.
It's good that your customer base has enough patience and good will that most people don't mind waiting, and don't want their peers to miss out on releases any more than they'd like to miss a release!
Although it might be more of a hassle to coordinate the pre-sales, I think it's probably the right move for this situation.
Not only could the guessing game be a bit painful for you if you happen to be in the habit of overestimating (or prone to noisy or biased judgements, which we all are), but chronic underestimating could really cause some disappointment for fans that will sting much more than a protracted wait.
Furthermore, given that external factors around record pressing could pose further challenges, it seems better to do as you're doing, and to check in with your customer base, and see that we're along for the ride.

Perhaps you could consider the above suggestion about releasing the digital files, after the close of the pre-sale, but ahead of the shipment of vinyl. This will help ensure problems with the distribution of vinyl don't lead to other issues where the music is heard less than it deserves to be heard.
I also think it might pay to try to further rationalise what releases get pressed to vinyl.
While I appreciate that many people love to buy records, it's a means to an end for me, and I'd gladly purchase digital files or CDs to get the tracks I need!
While I recognise that vinyl continues to be the preferred format of your customer base, I think you need to reconcile this with the pressing plant issues you've been describing in the last couple of blog posts. If things are getting jammed up then it makes some sense to reduce the number of vinyl titles that you schedule in future....  The issue with the pressing plants sounds as though it's going to take some time to resolve, and both option A and B could prove challenging to sustain in the long term.
Hopefully this helps you, and I appreciate that you've sought our feedback.

Cheers,

Adam S

Commented 15th June 2021 11:21

traffic_cone

+1 for pre-sales. As most people have said I don't mind waiting. Also with a limited press - not only might some of us miss it, but it could also encourage people buying just to flip them at a higher price. I'd certainly rather wait a bit than have to pay extra for a 2nd hand copy (and it'd be a shame for it to be the scalpers who profit when a release is more popular than projected!)

Commented 15th June 2021 11:22

nij_tp

Im with the several responses I read. PRESALE, I would rather know I can get a release than have to hope I do. My own personal feeling is that we all pay for things before we receive them and if I know that there is going to be 4-5 month delay (could be longer, could be shorter) its like receiving a pressie as I have probably forgotten about it when it comes :-). I think you guys are doing such a great job for the industry that if my contribution is patience, I'm down for that.

Commented 15th June 2021 01:01

DJTRAUMA

Single 10",12" or double packs. I would do option 1 and guess the order. But keep very quite and only mention. When the records arrive with you. Then put up them for sale separately or a batch like you have been doing. This method is good as us the punters. As we see a few days before hand via facebook a new release. We get excited, order it straigt away and it arrives quick. We generally buy more this way. When we know a new release is coming quickly in the post. For the box sets. I would do option 2 in pre sale. As these box sets are more expensive to manufacture. Knowing how many to order is more important. Us punters fully understand ordering the correct amount is important. As over ordering is bad for your company and may prevent funding for future releases / losing money. If you really want a box set. Most will pay and wait for it to be made. As it's a special / collectable item. Something to look forward to when it comes through the post. Plus with the box sets you can keep everybody informed on how they are coming a long in manufacture.

Commented 15th June 2021 01:34

gee_710

Hi Chris, My opinion is to keep going with the pre sales, yeah it's a pain waiting but at the end of the day the quality of the product we're getting for such a good price is worth it. I'd rather wait for a nice fresh repress than some of the S**t quality originals I've bought off of Discogs. Keep up the good work!

Commented 15th June 2021 03:46

fckless

I guess most people would rather wait than miss-out. But placing orders for pre-sale records, alongside records which could be dispatched now means waiting for records I could be enjoying right now! Very frustrating... I also suspect this may have lead to order confusion? And takes up valuable space at KF HQ? I don't think box-sets are the way to go either. With so many delays, awkward storage, or having to $hell out money for bundles of records we can't really afford, or just want part of only ads to folks financial strains.. Oh and as an OCDer I loathe all these different sub-lables, but love the challenge of cataloging my KF family collection. Of all the labels I still think your original Kniteforce logo-man is the best.

Commented 15th June 2021 04:15 | Updated 15th June 2021 05:48

djgriff003

Pre-sales please.....ive just bought tickets for a gig next may 2022...........a full year before........so it's a no brainer for me............also,you could give us an idea wots going to be in the box sets with prices and release dates....so we can decide if we want it or not :)

Commented 15th June 2021 05:00

Crossie

Presales sounds better. And I would highly appreciate an option to get digital only (without vinyl) as my flat just cannot accomodate more vinyl space-wise...

Commented 16th June 2021 07:46

DazW

My previous comment didn't seem to go through but I think I would prefer a presale. Don't mind the long the wait if it means we get a better chance at buying copys. Respect and thanks for all you are doing.

Commented 16th June 2021 04:49

scratsknite

Yep presales all day long! It is not unusual to have such long waits for vinyl to be fulfilled these days! Heck I have waited upto a year on more than a few releases from the day of pre order to it actually landing on my doorstep!! It also helps spread the cost also, there is just so much being released at the moment, you guys at Kniteforce putting stuff out almost every week along with other labels doing the same! So with no presale in place you have to prioritize which to buy first and hope whatever else you're after does not sell out! So yeah preorders all day long! :)

Commented 16th June 2021 05:46

Tinglefinger

I support presales.. but I think you need to do something about shipping costs, I can't afford to pay £5 delivery for every preorder. Perhaps a custom bundle feature or deferred shipping costs until arrival. I like that you do bundles but I can't afford to buy bundles with records I already own or records I don't want. Perhaps my situation is niche but my budget is limited. ps. you are doing a great job, thank you.

Commented 17th June 2021 09:32

djboogiedownuk

Pre Sales...then everyones happy. I pers don't mind the wait.. If you put in the extra work Im sure in the end rewards will be bountiful. KFR delivers every time.

Commented 17th June 2021 04:38

ToneTonyTone

Presales are cool.. And I for one am happy to ay and wait for them to turn up. But would you be able to hold on to other records that maybe already in stock ( without letting them go ) if ordered together with the presale, until they arrive ?

Commented 18th June 2021 05:06

kirliannexx

I honestly believe option 2 is the better one. First, I'd like to believe that most customers of the label feel like more than that, and understand KF is a labor of love. I'd like to believe that most KF customers would prefer to take some inconvenience on themselves (paying & waiting for a long time), versus having KF sit with unsold stock in a somewhat tricky economic climate and risking its stability and longevity. To be honest, waiting for the Acen Box made it quite the experience when it arrived hehe :) So yes, definitely option 2. It means the community will have to be more patient than usual, but I believe the label and its people surely deserve it.

Commented 18th June 2021 08:50

the_jungledon

Presales would be fine mate, i would probably forget, like i have with the Baraka and other presales, then be hit with loads of surprises. You then know what to order in regards with the boxsets. You sell exactly what you need to, and a lot of people will not miss out.

Commented 20th June 2021 05:13

Please Answer My Question and Baraka Pre Sale updates!

Alkivar

Brooksie831

dolphinhardcore

ormurk

MsPrim

Colinhq

The_D

Madsigntist

MK2k

DeviousDame

Hyper-Trax

Enzi

RizzoDJ80

Kevin8901

Marklamar

Bassline

jack-in-box

MRBUZZ

BrentSin

Blakey

wayne

simon_kns_jennings

Jako123

Percy

Remko7

KB

wesdye

JudgeyM

skyrim

Silenceeluwei

Mixadave

Tizwarz

rootz1971

F_Dippert

charlie_eon

Tr0uble

hypnotic

PZ1013

MissingLinkz

darkedge_tgs

kuma69

super_fonkey

Fumo

traffic_cone

John_Spectra

Sp00ns

Mike-H

nij_tp

bumpyrecords

DJTRAUMA

hseiken

gee_710

fckless

djgriff003

Bumfunkel

Crossie

DazW

scratsknite

Danstocky

In2Minds

Fer-D

Tinglefinger

djboogiedownuk

ToneTonyTone

kirliannexx

Raw10

the_jungledon

7W47

Mindcontrol